Do You Really NEED a Belay Carabiner? | Climbing Daily Ep.1266

Get the belay Carabiner’s:

A belay carabiner is a great way of adding some extra safety to your belay set up. However, Matt isn’t convinced. Luckily DMM’s Gear Expert is on hand to explain why you should add one to your collection.

Do You really NEED a Belay Carabiner? | Climbing Daily Ep.1266


Benjithemin says:

Depends on belay device

Christopher Jensen says:

you don’t *need* anything to climb. go up barefoot and free solo. whatever. it’s all about what you’re trying to accomplish with your gear. that diaper belt made out of tubular webbing you’d never use since you have a harness will keep you just as safe as your fancy BD Solution. i *prefer* to wear a purpose-built harness and use a pear-shaped locker when i belay.

T B says:

jsut get a dmm gromet. little bit of rubber and you dont need to have a one trick pony belay karabiner

Bobby Patton says:

I have a twist lock belay biner. I never take it off my belay loop and never causes me any hastle. Total quality of life thing. I find it makes everything a little easier.

Chad says:

One who fiddles is one who makes mistakes. So x4 was less fiddling as before. These “belay carabiners” are basically reinventing the wheel. Good job DMM and thanks Matt for info on this. Easy adjustments to a basic device to make climbing a little more fail safe. Thanks epic tv

Alan Clark says:

No you don’t, but I do have one, from decathlon, a Simond Goliath HMS with wire gate to reduce cross loading. I’ve used one of those DMM crabs with the plastic gate-gate, absolute pain to use at times.

Heroic Moose says:

When i started climbing i bought a climbing starter kit. Had an ATC, harnes, chalk bag and such. But also a Belay master from DMM, with the plastic locking thing. I still use it to this day, and i love it. It take you 0.5 secounds to close it, so i really dont see how its “time consuming”.

NatetheAceOfficial says:

“Fill in my massive holes”

collapsibletank says:

Sponsored by DMM.

Ben Nutley says:

so basically you don’t need one, but it can be nice, but don’t get a DMM one because they’re not as good as other brands. this is meant to be an ad for DMM but really this dude doesn’t represent the brand well. For example – “this is the phantom hms belay carabiner… it’s basically just a carabiner”. this whole thing could have been more authentic and honest rather than being a showcase of DMM products for no other reason than to advertise.

Captain Spangles says:

I’ve used plenty of krabs to belay in the past. Out of curiosity I got the Ceros quicklock and honestly, I’ve never looked back. It’s easy to use and effective. No brainer.

Steven Claggett says:

Except that even cross loaded most screwgates will still hold the worst falls meaning the aggravation of racking these isn’t worth the it. They are protecting you from a phantom risk.

Landolini says:

No you don’t really need one. 11 minutes summed up

Blake Bewley says:

The reason i’ve never bought one is that you are racking up a one trick pony. The belay biner won’t be as useful for other applications. I want a biner that has better functionality and can be a jack of all trades if (god forbid) I drop a biner on the climb.

Ammoniummetavanadate says:

I own something very similar to the phantom HMS from wild country, fantastic for multipitch climbing. I would consider the phantom when it comes out give that light weight.

Patrick Heney says:

I’m so confused by this thread and Matt in this video. I have a BD gridlock screwgate, one of the cheapest non cross loading belay biners you can get, and it works perfectly. The piece that prevents cross loading is attached to the gate and opens with it which I prefer as it makes it way easier than i think that metal DMM piece would be when getting the biner off your harness. Also you can still just clip it in normally like the metal if the screwgate is open. The other thing is, how many people here actually use their belay device biner for other things?? Even when multi pitching, the only thing I use my belay device biner for is my belay device, how else would you even keep it on your person if you’re using the biner for something else? These biners seem like a no brainer to me.

Diego Raquiman says:


Connor says:

Short answer, no pay attention
Long answer, no pay attention

Henkiepenkie says:

I’d love some feedback on this, but at my climbing school I was taught about the “three actions” where the belay master takes three actions (clip, screw, pull back the gate) to open. Is this principle not practiced widely?

AnonymousSources OFFICIAL says:

_I like the “Rhino” concept, make plenty of sense and seems like it could be really useful._

hoppy1970 says:

1:53 He means pear. The Belay Master MkI plastic bit has sharp corners and damages ropes so it needs to be deburred. Has this been improved?

Adam Black says:

I do like specific belay carabiners. I find that a good test for any general carabiner for belaying is play around with it setup on a harness for belaying and see how easy / hard it is to get it to cross load. For those not across carabiner loading – pickup a carabiner and read the ratings on it. It will generally give you a rating for end to end strength (how its meant to be used) (usually around 24kn) gate open strength and loading across the carabiner (both of which are much lower numbers). The much lower strength when putting load accross the carabiner is the reason behind wanting a belay carabiner that will stay in a good orientation.
In terms of specific carabiners – the belay master is great, I love how its really easy to visually inspect that the gate is done up and how it prevents cross loading.
The Rhino is a nice carabiner but its still possible to have it cross load while using a grigri. Its just harder to have happen than other devices.

Jamie says:

But can you use the twist Ceros as part of an anchor? I don’t use oval biners for sport or trad, only pear shaped ones, so would a little internal wiregate really be a problem for rigging?

Wesley Martins says:

Is hard to believe that you are so naive about belay dedicated carabiners

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